BloggerCon IV, Day 2: Core Values

 Mike Arrington, TechCrunch 

 gettingh mike arrington to talk at 4 is "give me a lawyer an hour to talk about core values" steve says he said, or something.

 wrote techcrunch for the last year.

 i actually think this is really interesting. I's been a long year. gone through somethings

 fell in love with blogging.

 went from the good times to the hate stuff. even today I looked at my comments, deleted a lot of them.

 talk about companies doing biz on the web as well.

 flickr may be beloved, but lately... need to ask questions.

 when I walk down the street, I don't slap somebody in the face. we have rules in society that establish what we do and do n't do.

 I don;'tthinik we ahve a core set of values . People don't realize fully the impact that nasty comments have on individuals.

 Is trolling okay?

 do you need to toughen up and get used to it?

 is it a valid viewopoint that, if you can't handle it, get out.?



 susan mernit: 

 i've had touble on and off for years withy a person who knew me, who seemed to delight in knowing what would get to me... actually turned off comments for awhile. Unrelated, went to see a therapist at the time.

 therapist looks at me and says "only one?" for trolls. uyou're doing pretty well if you only have one troll.

 figured out who i thought it was. used the initials on the blog. they stopped.

 mike arrington 

 the only thing that changes is when you gtet tough and don't care anymore.

 chris P: 

 neophytek, before blogging. sent out a mailing. one guy responded and complained. out of 30k

 there are always going to be people who attack or complain...


 it's not just disagreement. it's you suck hope you die.

 Scott johnson: 

 it's worse than that


 what about people who ... is it okay?


 I;ve had trolls launch competing standards to ones I've cdreated and waged wars with me. and posted as me. people see your name in the middle of horrible things...

 or people who respond to you...

 cost me huge amounts of money, years of my life... there is a company raising money now, in a space I made, by flaming me...

 human nature. this isn't new to the Web. it's a new space in which to work.

 everything you've heard about business being cutthrouat and dirty.. if it isn't nailed down, somebody is going to own it. It happed with RSS, with OPML... if yoiu want to create something open on the net you'll have to fight for it.


 role of transparency in creating values...


 anonymous trolling is going to happen. I really thought you could convince yoiur audience not to troll you.

 I think there is a trend toward people, not anonymously, being viscioius.


 your experience changes as you bcome more of a public figure...

 i started out blogging to grumble about stuff. then as Irealized that pelople could read back what you've said, I didn't need to be so grumpy.

 as people take more responsibility for what they say...


 my point is that people feel more permissiomn to slap you in the face.

 Robert Cox: 

 this is not a new issue. usenet ,. compuserve. nothing new here. one day a year ago, my web host told me that this troll on your site is posting elsewhere. I've tracked information, and I can tell you who they are. I jumped at the opportunity. gathered a lot of info about this person. I promised on my site to expose the name, and dared me to do it, and they freaked out. they called the FBI, the police... said I was cyberstalking it....

 six weeks ago, got an email from this person, asking me could we be friends again, and could I take what's up down.

 this person is now the campai8gn director for a political cam paign in my state. Now she regrets it.


 what do people thikn about what he did>


 some agree, some didn't.


 why not take it offline? (Robert did). Okay then.


 why is the answer to agression more aggression.

 last fall at the IIW I said I was going to put something up, a guy sent an email to all of us, accusing me of stealing stuff from him... made me so angry... I never steal ideas from anybody...

 so we went back and forth on email...

 doc made a comment ... said this guy was young and didn't understand what was going on... said that the reality is that I, or somebody needs to teach this guy a better way to behave...

 we have so much more emotional response...

 how do you scale?


 we don;'t have acommons yet.


 rentmychest.com was trollproof.

 you may ... (missed most of it. sorry)


 im march I went into an apple store in seatle, and noticed that there was no contol, alt and delete... guy in the store said pigs would flybefore it happened. it happend. then got flamed for pointing it out.

 times said one determined detractor weighs th esame as a hundred thousand detractors...


 video gaming community... perfectly okay to swear and and tear down opponents.... can we get past that... what level of civility we may want or not want?


 everybody assumes there is another side of a story. obviously a great example of getting back. but they're out telling a different story and pelople don't know what to believe.


 I want to speak up for aggression and conflict?

 it's just words. it can be productive to argue with somebody who's ...

 civility is overrated


 yes, sometimes it is overrrated.

 thre is a difference with bloggers. one comment saying your an asshlle, okay

 but when you get 55 a day. and it gets to 50K per month.

 most bloggers who quit do that for this reason.

 peple just bail out.

 dave says he'll bail before the end of the year...


 Hey , monetize yoiur trolls.

 maybe there are times you should be angry...


 as a social libertarian I have a problem with information that's been illegally required...


 don't lose sight of core values.

 peple started out thinking they were individuals... people have no relationship, no investment...

 the peple who have no relationship are the ones who are most likely to (be trolls). attackers are not in your community,...


 Is it okay to delete comments.


 everybody does it their own way

 integrity and transparency, set of rules.

 jarvis says this is my living room. if you talk bad i kick you out.


 if there are no communityrules people won' t farm the land.

 enoch choi: 

 if yoiu can be the bigger person, and try to let these trolls blow it off any way you can...

 if yoiu can't, delete them.

 steve gillmor: 

 like to take issue with something doc said

 I think this is intensely personal

 the netowrk has flattened all hieriacchy to the point of irrelevance.

 I feel mike's pain.

 I wake up every morning and decide whether to get up or not. I do take this personally. we're all in the saeme boat here. we're all going to have to confront the issue. what mike says ... are we going to let these assholes sque3lch out excitement and desire to make the world? to break us?


 rentmychest.com was made to disarm people. I'm saying nothing is going to bother me. It's fun for me now to respond to the trolls with a smiley that enrages them back.


 conflicts of interest. i write about companies. I also have parties. and sometimes they are sponsored. the idea of disclosing conflicts is probably a good thing, pelople ould agree. what aobut more subtle matters.

 what about transparency?

 I co-founded edgio. what about a competitor. what if I'm ... what are the subtle ways we can push the things we like or don't like.


 I tend not to write about the things I don't like, because it wastes my time and gives them attention.

 But I'll warn someblody who I think is being bad.

 If yoiu hae an advertiser and say they like their product, are yoiu (compromised).


 should I not write aboutsomething *at all* because there is a disclosed involvment? some sugge3st that.


 somebody said on my wikipedia entry something that wasn't true, and ...

 tim o'reilly should have disclosed from the beginning that he was seeking to own Web 2.0.

 the idea of transparency and honestly.


 be transparent, be honorable, and if not everybodyh loves you, fuck 'em.

 in the aggregate everybody gets that there are things we all like and dislike...

 Mark Glaser: 

 there are lots of journalists that... diclosure alleviates some concerns... the more transparent you are, the better it is.

 you should give yoiur readers everything they need to (judge uyour integrity)


 I asked Om if he would be an advisor, last year. Om is my friend. he might have written more about edgio than otherwise becdaus he's my friend.

 at some point yoiur whole blog post is a disclosure.


 it's not like youi're lthe sole souce of info on everything you're writing about. it's like airlies or cars. there are many sources of info. Peple can compare Andy and Om and Mike.. pople should have a mind of their own.


 the whole world is build on relationships. do I expect preferential treatm,ent from pelople who write for the wsj...

 core values is jsut called living. yoiu build up relationships...


 to what andy was saying... there is kind of a monoculture here in san francisco. sort of a muthual backscratching thing going on. I've been breaking that rule since the beginning. but I'll take that because I hate the flat world. you lose the ability to triangulate. if we all speak frankly, and don't sing the same song...

 there's a difference between not liking something somebody says and who they are. but the distinction gets lost. people say "uyou're attacking me", when all I did was disagree.


 one of the best courses I ever haD... two kinds of arguments... arguments of facts and aruments of person. soon as the other party gets personal, you've won.


 I never write about my clients. I write about everything.


 I write for a living.


 you're in a unique position

 jay rosen 

 commiunity and truth are core values. but they often come into conflict.

 comunityis improtant. pelople who have common values. they develop various forms of pc. sooner or later the truth-teller runs into conflict with that community.


 people who take a holier than thou attitude... it's as important to turn around, and ask, by what we are doing, we are creating a lot of impact, and somebody is going to be more, and less successful...

 talk aobut conflicts of inte3rest comes from people who may have reasons to bring it up.

 transparency, disclosure, case closed. that's it.

 Om Malik: 

 to add to what you (mike) said..

 your friendship bought you (joke)

 you kind of make friendships with various parties...

 the disclosure is in yoiur hjeart. what do you thinkn is right to do. you are the person you have to live with at the end of the day. you don't want to fight yoiurself. .. you say this is my blog, my opinions, take it or leave it.

 the ball is in yoiur court.

 trolls are an issue you have to deal with in your own terms... that is your space, that is you. techcrunch is mikeA's brain and heart on the web.

 if you can sleep with what you've said, that's all that matters.

 robert cox: 

 was on a panel at the national press club. subject was trust. interesting in c ontext of where theycome from. they felt they had trust historically and lost it over time. I was the blogger in the room. said that most pelple feel that you have all these conversations among yourselves. it's an inside game. yoiu don't re3ally say what's really going on.

 may be that your whole post is a bunch of disclosures., but I'd like to se3e those. the alternative is that you end up like those people.


 have you tried talking to yoiur advrertisers...

 speakers pay foer their position in many conferences... you're accused before you'e exonerated...

 we dco the same thing with advertising...


 the huge party at the museum of flight that we're doing. the conversation in the hallways or after dinner is the main thing they remember ... we're selling this to sponsors...


 but they expect more for their money.. sometimes they want your integrity.


 coming from an industry riddled with payola...

 wolrking with musicians doing blogs. I'm forming relationships. it's not necessarily a bias. rathe3r it]s based on the relationship.

 im the blogosphere anybody can be called out on payola so easily.

 there's a blog that recently got paid by a major label to only plug mp3s by that label. got busted in two days.

 journalism that combines consumerism and liberal media.

 the blogosphere is biased. and I love that.


 people ar ebiassed.

 all hiujmans are biased


 I;'m fascinated with this group mindset. tim o'reilly. sometimes pelple come along and do a show and a publication and become a godhead.. I watch these people do it. we figured it out. it's about monetizing a term... Web 2.0.

 Give the credit to doc's son for Live Web.


 It's a little more complex than tha.

 we'ret talking about human nature.

 we do ahve blogs, the net, a billion people online, and that's going to make people more honest. Om said it best. Yoiu have to kinow in yoiur heart...


 comes down to yoiur personal integrity.


 mmy point is that we candisclose everything, yet something about human nature... every single person who reads what we write needs to realize that we're human beings, and what we say needs to be taken in context.


 got a call from bernie goldbach (irisheyes) he would thype in a word, the + sign and the word problem. this was his collectivfe wisdom of crowds.



 what I said about andy is right. two things that drive me today. one is that I;'m always honest and open . the other is that the trolls are tuning me into a dick. not sure I want to farm this land any more.

 I;m asking peolpe to be nicer to each other...



Last update: Saturday, June 24, 2006 at 9:02:18 PM Eastern. Number of updates: 7.