News and commentary from the cross-platform scripting community.
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Mail Starting 6/16/97 | |
I have been following scripting.com for a year or so now. My partner and I are enjoying Frontier very much and are looking forward to ports to other platforms, like Be and NT. I digress...
From: michelle@PSYCH.UCLA.EDU (Rick McDonald);
Sent at 6/18/97; 10:01:50 AM;
"Compaq of ISPs"I am writing in response to your Compaq of ISP's post. We were having many troubles with our colocated server, and so we decided to get a T1 and host it ourselves. After more research than I would have liked to do, I chose GoodNet, www.good.net. Over the six months that have followed, I have had only one problem from them, a down L.A. router, and they have since placed a redundant router in their L.A. pop. What impresses me most is that unlike other connections we have had over the years, when their is a problem, GoodNet promptly calls us from their 24/7 NOC.
An example. Once they called me at 8 pm because they noticed 15% packet loss on my circuit. They recommended that I restart my router, and if that didn't work they would test the circuit. (Testing the circuit takes down the connection and thus is a last resort.) I dialed in and restarted the router and our problem was solved.
Another. There was a large fire at Grifith Park and the power went out to most of Burbank where my office is. They called me. I explained what happenned. When the power went back on, they checked as the line went back up and with me verified that the connection was good.
GoodNet provides a IP switched national backbone. They provide a pipe. What they don't do so well is provide web hosting and support for colocated machines. (Their sales manager said as much to me last week.) They are thinking about getting into colocation, but have no intention of helping Mac web servers.
Personally, what I would like to do is use a distributed web server system with a central server at GoodNet's main location to provide the fastest web service available anywhere from any client location. I would like to place a load balancing tool like the Interactive Network Dispatcher from IBM and a web server at GoodNet's central office in Phoenix. Then I would like to place auxiliary servers on the networks of other national providers like ANS and BBN. Using the Interactive Network Dispatcher or FireSite on a Mac, I could make sure all hits (with the IBM product) or all large files (with FireSite) were served from the closest or fastest connection for each browsing client.
GoodNet would provide a strong stable location to serve the first hit directing users to another location, and would provide the rest of the service for users where they were the fastest. But, if a user came from AOL or GTE or PacBell they would receive their information from a server on the same backbone as they were. This would reduce low transfer rates caused by traffic at the various NAP's and MAE's.
Unfortunately, my little group of clients just pays for my T1 and doesn't really have the $10-20K/mo. that it would take to get a scheme like this off the ground. Let me know what you think if you think this is an interesting idea. Otherwise, GoodNet does provide what I think is the best service available today, and it is the closest thing to "The Compaq of ISP's" available.
Hi Dave:
From: jaggi@server.pingnet.ch (Christoph Jaggi);
Sent at 6/18/97; 3:32:38 PM;
Re:I Love Acronymsone of my favorite acronyms: UOB
Christoph
P.S. UOB is a non-aggressive, but highly accurate description for some people in this and other industries. It stands for underqualified, overpaid bozo.
I just read the ILA letter and experienced "DJVAOA" (Deja Vu All Over Again) with your telling of the Internex fiasco. I had a similar problem with EarthLink Network; they refused to cancel my account and continued to bill me 9 months (and counting!) after the fact. It seems to me that your credit card company leaves a little to be desired here as well; my AT&T Universal account refunded all of the money and interest and went after the ISP for both!
From: tadamec@ferret.slip.net (Timothy M. Adamec);
Sent at 6/17/97; 6:04:48 PM;
Re:I Love AcronymsIt seems to me that the credit card company is treating you just as poorly as Internex is. We pay the CCC (Credit Card Companies) these outrageous interest fees to represent us in disputes and provide a service that normally isn't provided with a checking or savings account with a bank.
You should take a closer look at Inverse Networks.(I'd give you their URL but my Internex ISDN connection is down - you were right to change). They've got a nifty set of tests, only a small portion of which they've made public, which can effectively gauge ISP performance. I think AT&T already publishes some of their data showing dial up access performance. In addition to modem availability, they can also test "deeper" into an ISP's infrastructure, reporting on authentication and DNS server availability (both of which happen after your modem handshakes with your ISP's). Check them out.
From: z@interwest.com (John Zeisler);
Sent at 6/17/97; 4:23:38 PM;
Re:I Love AcronymsOoh! Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! (ala Horshack)
From: wombat@best.com (Greg Collins);
Sent at 6/17/97; 4:23:09 PM;
Re:"A frustrated Windows 95 user vents"I know the anser! Pick me! Pick ME!!
*Java*
All those developers that screwed up your system with lousy installers just need one more chance to do it right - install over the net. That'll fix everything. The Holy Grail has finally been found.
Right!
I just don't see where they have learned *any* lessons.
Ok, It's not just the developers it's the OS guys too. An OS *should* have an "installation strategy" and *enforce* it. This is one of the things that computer- human interface design should be all about. But the state of that art hasn't changes since 1984 (well, the late seventies actually).
What ever happened to Tog?
Respectfully,
Wombat
wombat@best.com (the "FreeBSD" of ISP's)P.S. It took me forever to find your email address. Can you put it on your front page - www.scripting.com?
P.P.S Re: a flaw in the fridge analogy - you still have to *clean* the fridge. Maybe we should shoot for the "self-cleaning stove" of interfaces?
P.P.S From what I understand it seems that your FAT pages are taking a crack at part of this problem. But, I don't fully get it because I'm not a real Frontier user yet.
P.P.P.S *PLEASE*!!!!!!! Don't re-desing www.scripting.com. Remember Apple's (or Job's) old saying "Simplicity is the ultimate Sophistication". Your's is the only site I read everyday (ok, Macintouch too). None of the re-designs I've seen have added *any* value - only complexity. Dance to your own drummer Dave! Time for a new song - "Little Drummer Boy".
P.P.P.P.S I used to subscribe to DaveNet. But now I just read www.scripting.com. A superset of info and better looking (I read mail on a unix shell for speed). I can't figure out why anyone would still want davenet in the mail. P U L L !!!
P.P.P.P.P.S Please, whatever you do at least don't use frames!
I vote NO on:
http://www.galileosoftware.com/frontier/pieces/indexleftsimple.htm
If you want to see what havoc maximum configurablity can wreak check out the .Xdefaults file of XWindows. I vote for consistency and simplicty over configurablity.
Duh!
That's why I own a Mac! :)
P.P.P.P.P.S As you can see I've got some pent up ranting here. Trying to stay respectfull... Here's a poem you might like:
Motto
I play it cooo
And dig all jive.
That's the reason
I stay aliveMy motto
As I live and learn, is:
Dig And Be Dug
In Return
Langston Hughes
P.P.P.P.P.P.S You're still reading? Woa! One last thing:
No text only gifs!
Unless you have well known corporate typeface like Apple and want a text banner. Use very sparingly!!!
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.S. It's ironic: suck.com should now be on suck.com since they went to frames.
S.U.C.K - Suck's Undecipherable Computer Krap (ala GNU's not Unix)
Must
stop
t y p i n g...
I think you need to consider switching credit-card providers. Keep disputing the charges, in writing, with copies of all relevant documentation. Usually I find credit card companies side with the customer and put the burden of proof for the validity of charges on the merchant. I find it shocking they would brush off your attempt to dispute a charge by saying "too bad, so sad". There is specific consumer protection law which sets down dispute resolution procedures consumer credit card providers must follow. They don't kick in until you dispute the charge(s) in writing, however.
From: davehart@MICROSOFT.com (Dave Hart);
Sent at 6/17/97; 2:10:55 PM;
Re:I Love AcronymsGood gravy! Another review that's about as useful as an ice scraper in La Jolla. Merely skimming the highlights, the editors touched on primarily those features "enjoyed by windows 95 users". I try not to be a bigot for the Mac OS -- Windows is coool too! -- but defining one experience based solely on how it mimicks another one is ineffective.
From: dsandler@rice.edu (Daniel Sandler);
Sent at 6/17/97; 4:08:38 PM;
PC Week's Mac OS 8 Review: Huh?Can you imagine the editors of Egg and Dairy Week describing the invention of the New York strip steak:
"Its feature set is similar to the familiar Cheese Omelette, offering the familiar ability to slice it up with a fork and knife. These pieces are good for chewing and swallowing, and offers nutritive functionality -- which users of the Cheese Omelette have enjoyed for years."
Sorry, got a little carried away.
Sounds like you should change credit card companies, as well as ISP's.
From: gnu@toad.com (John Gilmore);
Sent at 6/17/97; 1:54:42 PM;
Re:I Love AcronymsGood morning.
From: howland@conxion.com (Curt Howland);
Sent at 6/17/97; 10:03:16 AM;
Mae-West down.As of 09:30, Mae-West is having serious problems. This may cause trouble getting to some sites.
Peering remains up through the PacBell NAP and Mae-East. If there are any questions, please don't hesitate to call us.
Curt-
Interesting article (that is, Sucking Sideways), and I think the comparison between Netscape and Apple is mostly valid (having worked in developer relations in both places).
From: pdreyfus@netscape.com (Paul Dreyfus);
Sent at 6/17/97; 10:28:44 AM;
Re:"[Fwd: Sucking Sideways]"The main difference I perceive is mostly on the side of the developers. At Apple, we dealt with a great many more cynical (and at times, impossible) people, who seemed to follow Apple just to pick it's story and technology apart.
Here, the majority of developers seem to really like what we're trying to do, and they're sincere in their efforts to help us. If we don't always have the answer they want, they tend to be much more patient and forgiving.
This observation is based largely on my random contact with developers at our DevCon last week, so it's not scientific. But, after years at Apple when conversations with developers made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end, I expected the same kind of cynicism from Netscape developers. So far, I haven't experienced that.
Paul Dreyfus
Editor, View Source
Netscape Communications
http://developer.netscape.com/news/viewsource/index.htmlI here ya. A few years back, I helped co-found an ISP, which is still in existance but without my daily help. When we first started out, our connection was very unreliable. After 6 months of Hell, we switched to BBN Planet, and our troubles were over. Almost no downtime, for an entire year.
From: cameron@michweb.net (Cameron Barrett);
Sent at 6/17/97; 1:01:55 PM;
Re:The Compaq of ISPsNow, I work for a design firm in another city in the same state. I am smart enough to know how the basic networking works. And, now, I am seeking a reliable fast connection in this new city. There are nine ISPs in this city and I call up every single one of them. I ask questions about xDSL and ISDN. Every one of them has no idea what I'm talking about, but they would be happy to provide me with a dedicated 33.6K modem connection at ridiculous rates.
Of the 5000+ ISPs in this country, how many of them are actually providing a quality service for a reasonable rate? Every time I turn around I find yet another fly-by-night ISP operation. Part of me starts to feel really sick and uneasy.
I am teaching web design classes at the local college. It scares me how little some people think they have to know in order to make money off the Internet. It also scares me how unprepared some of these people are for actually doing work within our industry.
We are a document management company who has hopped on the internet bandwagon. Needless to say, we absolutely depend on our ISP's ability to keep our T1 running. We've settled on Digex, and haven't had any noticable downtime since. Occasionally a NAP will get confused and cut off some small segment of the internet, but in general, they've always come through rather well.
From: samkass@samkass.com (Samuel Kass);
Sent at 6/17/97; 1:32:06 PM;
ISPs that workWe're moving offices soon, and there is an ISP in the building itself who offers T1 at half the price. We'll see-- I'm keeping my fingers crossed. But my point is that you don't have to settle for anything. That's what capitalism is all about. Speak with your dollar, and switch ISPs immediately, is my advice.
I don't know how often something like the World Wide Web comes along, but I think we should keep our minds open that the Web isn't the end of Internet evolution.
From: fredb@compuserve.com (Fred Ballard);
Sent at 6/17/97; 9:35:27 AM;
It's Just Packets (Was: Sucking Sideways)Although it's a totally incomplete picture, sometimes it's useful to just view the Internet as just moving packets of data.
I hope there are many, many more things as creative and as incredible as the Web that can be done with those packets.
A lot can be gained by keeping the widest perspective possible and not "forcing all our ideas thru the narrower browser pipe."
(That is, as long as we keep using general-purpose personal computers and not browser-dedicated network computers. If we'd all somehow changed over to dedicated "Internet computers" in the early 1990s, before the Web, would we have been able to make the move to the Web as quickly as we did or even at all?)
Isn't that dry TEAT? No real worries either way, but... JB
From: john@skunkmedia.com (John Bates);
Sent at 6/16/97; 11:42:16 AM;
Re:Sucking SidewaysYou are so right on! I'm sick to death hearing people whine about Netscape and Microsoft and how hard it is to do anything good.
From: paul@paulsimmons.com (Paul Simmons);
Sent at 6/16/97; 1:02:57 PM;
Re:Sucking SidewaysI think your assessment of the netscape situation was right on. All the arm chair quaterbacking we all did for apple which went from "if only apple would" to "if only apple had" to "Well Win95 isn't that bad actually" never seemed to help us or apple. We just have to focus on doing what we can. For our part we have developed a small high quality 2D graphics library with postscript and GX like features which we have tried to sell to people making Internet content tools. It is very hard to scream loud enough to be heard over sound of the hype trains of Flash, Java2D, and Quicktime. So instead of relying netscape or some other savior, we are licensing it to small app developers. BTW If you are ever interested in linking your scripting stuff to a cross platform graphics library check out http://www.headspin.com
From: tebbs@headspin.com (Brice Tebbs);
Sent at 6/16/97; 12:44:39 PM;
Re:Sucking SidewaysDAMN STRAIT DAVE! Personally I can hardly wait until we see a browser prison riot smash their chains and discover we don't -need- browsers with sand-boxes and 12 - 24 MB RAM foot prints.
From: Don-Strickland@ocinc.com (Don W. Strickland);
Sent at 6/16/97; 11:13:11 AM;
Re:Sucking SidewaysI like for incoming email to be managed in a predictable structure (mailboxes and folders) but I'd really like for WWW pages to be viewable anytime/anywhere like Finder (sound, text, etc clips) (And I'm not talking about Cyberdog/OpenDoc).
I want to see the -browser- features (page viewing & editing, bookmark management, plug-in/cgi extendability, etc) blended into the fabric of the OS much like Fonts, Sounds, TextEdit, Local/LAN/WAN file access, and printing have been.
Browsing is too application layer bound today. We need to drive HTTP/WWW/JAVA/FTP/SMTP/Scripting deep into the heart of OSes and kill the RAM/CPU-sucking Application Suites of the 19th century.