News and commentary from the cross-platform scripting community.
	Mail Starting 6/29/97

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From: marklmiller@hotmail.com (Mark_L Miller);
Sent at 6/30/97; 9:25:46 PM;
Re:Java is a Brand

I'm also a big fan of Javascript, partly because it is accessible even to kids who just have to know a little HTML. Here's the catch: AOL got sold a bill of goods by MS Internet Explorer (otherwise a nice product) and so the default AOL browser doesn't know Javascript. Net-net? You can't use it much (eg in education) because you lose all those people who still think AOL is the Internet.

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From: dbuell@ls.com (David Buell);
Sent at 6/30/97; 3:49:19 PM;
Re:Java is a Brand

I still would love to get the following answered:

In your mind, take Java forward. Let it mature.

Now compare this mature Java with Smalltalk. What does Java do better???

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From: rberger@ar.com (Robert J. Berger);
Sent at 6/30/97; 12:26:49 PM;
Re:Java is a Brand

Why doesn't someone "Embrace & Extend" J/Direct? Port the API to the Mac, Solaris and Linux. Then we have the full capabilities of a true platform and it's cross platform!

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From: postmaster@meyerjohnson.com (Mark Camp);
Sent at 6/30/97; 11:26:14 AM;
Languages lost in the shouting

The argument over Java covers the real revolution in programming languages. Scripting languages like HTML, PERL and others let regular people become programmers. They can go on to work in compiling languages if they want, but most just figure out how to accomplish their goals with the simpler tools they can master quickly and easily.

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From: adamt@smginc.com (Adam Turoff);
Sent at 6/30/97; 12:50:26 PM;
Re: 800 Words on Java

When was the last time you read the Book of Ecclesiastes? Back in biblical times they were saying that "there is nothing new under the sun." (No pun on Sun Microsystems intended.) It's still true. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

A friend of mine has his feet in both in the COBOL-oriented 9-5 business world as well as the latest and greatest internet technologies. He cast COBOL as a way for Corporate America to insure it had a large pool of people that can fufill their computational needs. Remember that it was one of the first computer languages to take hold, and before COBOL, everyone was a specialist in something different, usually some mainframe assembly language. (Unfortunately, they standardized too soon with something under-engineered, giving us the y2k problem.)

Now look at Java. Isn't Java nothing more than the good intentions behind COBOL recast for the 90's?

Put on your rose-colored Java glasses. What do you see in 5 years? Supercomputers to smart cards will all have some sort of Java capability. And that means that any Java programmer will have the basic skillset to do web applets, agents, embedded systems, smart cards, desktop apps, server apps, etc. You couldn't say that 5 years ago. You can't even say that today, but it's starting to take hold.

Of course what has been executed today doesn't live up to that long-range view, and it could be easily mismanaged and become yet another footnote in computing history.

The future promise of Java is what geeks are falling in love with, and what no one is really explaining consistently or concisely. You can't sell future promises, though. People don't buy technology or promises; they buy solutions. Java is mature enough to provide solutions for a certain class of problems, and it will grow to solve even more problems as time goes on.

Don't confuse an early implementation for the sole expression of technology. Those who passed over personal computing after seeing a C64 or an Apple ][ must be kicking themselves.

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From: bob@atg.com;
Sent at 6/30/97; 12:28:46 PM;
Java

Right now there is this big marketing war between Microsoft and the Java camp (i.e. Sun). Most of this doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The final say (hopefully!) will come down to the developers. All of us are the people who will build all the new stuff - and we'll be selfish. We'll want good development tools and languages. One of the main things that I think is unique about Java, is not The Platform, but purely the language. It's a joy to program in the Java language. I must say that I am a bit biased - I've been programming exclusively in Java for over a year now - interestingly enough only server-side Java, for an internet application framework (Dynamo) that can be used to generate dynamic HTML content.

But I must say, when was the last time anyone looked forward to programming standard Win32 code? As I like to say, "Java has fun APIs!"

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From: rhughes@lilikoi.com (Richard J. Hughes);
Sent at 6/28/97; 9:41:54 PM;
Java

Last Wednesday I gave a talk at the San Diego Supercomputer Center about a web-based group discussion program I've written in C, called "Ceilidh". The subsequent discussion partly focused on the relative merits of C/C++ vs. Java, the audience split approximately 50:50.

The truth is that you can write a small and fast application for the Web in C (or a bit less so in C++) that *is* platform-independent by leveraging the use of HTML display by the browser. You don't need Java for platform-independent applications on the Web.

With a well-written C program it's write once and (compile and) run everywhere.

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From: priviet@sirius.com (Steven Gilman);
Sent at 6/29/97; 6:36:27 PM;
Re:800 Words on Java

Java needs a defining voice, and I belive one that comes from a somewhat independent (read; developer) camp. In the beginning, I thought that Kim Polese would be that defining spokesperson. She seemed to be everywhere, and whenever the conversation turned to Java, she was included in the paragraph.

Microsoft has certainly played a significant role in helping to divide the market, and feed the fractured voices. That can also be a strategy that has results; if you do not wish to cede a market, make it difficult to identify the defining voice in that market.